The following is a transcript of a 14-minute interview conducted in a Justice Department conference room. Present: the Deputy Attorney General, a Fried Ocean reporter, and a 26-year-old White House liaison named only as “Brayden,” who sat in a folding chair angled slightly behind the Deputy AG’s left shoulder and did not remove his sunglasses.
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FRIED OCEAN: Let’s start simple. Is the Justice Department independent?
DEPUTY ATTORNEY GENERAL: Totally. Absolutely. Deputy attorney general independence is the bedrock of the whole thing. Nobody tells this office what to do.
FRIED OCEAN: Nobody.
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DEPUTY AG: Nobody. [glances left] Right?
BRAYDEN: Checking.
FRIED OCEAN: Checking with whom?
DEPUTY AG: He’s not checking with anyone. He’s just a guy. He’s a guy who sits there.
BRAYDEN: [typing] He’s cleared to say “nobody.”
DEPUTY AG: Nobody.
FRIED OCEAN: Has the White House ever asked you to open or close an investigation?
DEPUTY AG: I would resign on the spot. I would walk out that door, I would go home, I would tell my wife, and I would resign.
FRIED OCEAN: In that order?
DEPUTY AG: The order is under review.
FRIED OCEAN: By?
BRAYDEN: Us.
FRIED OCEAN: I want to be clear about something. You’ve said publicly that you’d defy an unlawful order. Would you?
DEPUTY AG: One hundred percent. That is not a close call for me. I took an oath. [pause] Brayden, is that a close call for me?
BRAYDEN: It’s a medium call.
DEPUTY AG: It’s a medium call. But I want to stress — medium leaning defiant.
FRIED OCEAN: Do you need permission to be independent?
DEPUTY AG: That’s a gotcha question.
FRIED OCEAN: It’s an eight-word question.
DEPUTY AG: Look. Independence isn’t a thing you have, it’s a thing you request, and then it’s a thing you have. It’s like a corporate expense report. Am I independent? Yes. Is that independence booked against the correct cost center? That’s above my pay grade, and I say that as the second-highest-ranking law enforcement officer in the United States.
FRIED OCEAN: Brayden, does he have to run this interview by you?
BRAYDEN: No.
DEPUTY AG: See? No.
BRAYDEN: He has to run the transcript by us. The interview is his. The interview is fully his. He owns the interview in his heart.
FRIED OCEAN: Last question. If you were fired tomorrow for refusing an order, what would you want people to remember?
DEPUTY AG: That I stood up. That when the moment came, I didn’t blink. That the rule of law had at least one guy left in the building.
FRIED OCEAN: That’s a good answer.
DEPUTY AG: Thank you. Can he use that?
BRAYDEN: [not looking up] We’ll get back to you.
The Deputy Attorney General nodded, folded his hands, and waited.